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Another class 20 for the SVR
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yates_m



Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 452
Location: Swepstone, Leicestershire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back on topic if I may? Very Happy

The owning group now has both its 20's here and the other one previously at Tyseley is a source of spares, its arrival has been agreed with the owners and it will be broken down as agreed with the owning group.
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LMS2968



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Wigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yates_m wrote:
Getting back on topic if I may? :D

The owning group now has both its 20's here and the other one previously at Tyseley is a source of spares, its arrival has been agreed with the owners and it will be broken down as agreed with the owning group.

Thanks for that, Malcolm; it was starting to get like Nat Pres!
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Buffer



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 704
Location: Leamington Spa

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrmover wrote:

............. When the SVR was first formed, back in 1965, some of the locos now resident hadn't even been built. .............

Presume you are talking about diesels or do you know something that we don't? Perhaps 'Tornado' is taking up residence. Laughing
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mrmover



Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 888
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No... wrong shade of green! Oops ... that is like Nat Pres Laughing
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R Hargreaves



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 168
Location: TELFORD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJEvans wrote:
mrmover wrote:
Meantime it takes up valuable siding space, presumably joining the corral of locos covered in tarpaulins that look so tatty and down at heel around the turntable while period coaching stock is dispatched to pastures new because of "a lack of space".

It should be note that at the moment the diesels are open to the elements, while the carriage sheds protect the coaching stock which is more important.
There does seem to be too many diesels for what they do but what can we do?


Why not just accept it and stop whinging about diesels. Everybody accepts steam is the staple diet but there are plenty of diesel enthusiasts out there too. Be intersting to compare the profits from last years diesel event to the spring steam gala just passed. I love steam and diesel and am getting fed up of the attitute of a stubborn minority who can't show even a little tolerance of other forms of traction.
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Housey_D444



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Be intersting to compare the profits from last years diesel event to the spring steam gala just passed.


Mr Hargreaves I would also like to know this!

Besides the diesel gala was a full time second job for myself with the help of a handful of others, THAT MONEY GOES INTO THE SVR POT! I would also like to add that the overall profits of that gala were more than most average people’s wage!

I do think some people forget that us diesel people are here for the SVR and have that at interest.
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Ben6024



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 66
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quoteI do think some people forget that us diesel people are here for the SVR and have that at interest.[/quote]

Well said Scott!
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PGTips



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMS2968 wrote:
yates_m wrote:
Getting back on topic if I may? Very Happy

The owning group now has both its 20's here and the other one previously at Tyseley is a source of spares, its arrival has been agreed with the owners and it will be broken down as agreed with the owning group.

Thanks for that, Malcolm; it was starting to get like Nat Pres!



I love ALL the speculation but had't you crystal ball gazer's better wait to see WHAT the OWNERS WANT to do!!!!!!!!!! Shocked
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boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2740
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PGTips wrote:
I love ALL the speculation but had't you crystal ball gazer's better wait to see WHAT the OWNERS WANT to do!!!!!!!!!! Shocked
Are you suggesting the owners of 20177 should decide its fate?

Before its arrival I would like to think the owners have had a clear instruction that it's here for a clearly specified length of time for parts removal only and then whatever is left is immediately weighed-in.

Whilst the possibility exists that there is to be a cull of scarce historic carriages then it is nothing less than logical to be ruthless with 20177.
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sharpo



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3728
Location: Dark Side

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back a few weeks I remember both the 20s in action the day before the Spring gala, moving stock up & down the line. Also, I would think a 20 would be able to handle an 8 or 9 coach train with ease, so ideal to handle any train in an emergency. Probably economical to run, and at 72 tons easy on the track? I reckon an asset to the Railway.

As for the owning group of the 20s, they have 2 operable locos and no doubt a good supply of spares to come from the third. Seems sensible to me.

Even "steamers" cause upsets - I think you'll find in this forum we've had Tornado being too big for the line, the King with the water carrier taking up space, but whatever you do, don't mention tinsel.

Just think what a boring place it would be if everybody in this forum was happy.

So, to finish, the pair of them in action....



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ManorFan



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 333
Location: Bromsgrove

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrmover wrote:
I have made no comment on the discussion about the Class 50 exhaust fumes. This is a thread about another Class 20.

I see that there have been comments on the Private Forum suggesting that any discussions re steam v. diesel should not be posted on the Public Forum.

I make no apology for making my earlier comment on this thread, and like many others I can see a point in preserving some diesels and making use of them on the Valley - whether that be for infrastructure trains or a limited niche service for the diesel enthusiasts.

It is a fact that the preservation movement as whole is much more active that during the latter days of steam, and as such more and more diesel locos are being preserved. There are, I believe 36 Brush Type 4's preserved (Class 47) out of a total of 512 built. This is for a general purpose, go anywhere (well almost anywhere) loco. If that were extrapolated to the Black 5 there would be 60 of one of Sir William Stanier's finest in preservation. (If only!) And that's from a class that is still in front line service. Similarly there are 18 preserved 50's out of a class of 50. Can we have a similar proportion of other steam classes?

I am not decrying the desire of some to preserve examples of some of these locos - after all that is what the preservation movement is all about and it needs to be a broad church, catering for all enthusiasms. However, with the increase in the numbers of diesel locos comes a shortage of space to put them. The Valley hasn't got limitless siding space, or indeed the wherewithal to make more space and it has publicly stated that rolling stock reviews need to be undertaken, bearing in mind the usefulness of the item in question and how it fits in to the railway, it's running and the public perception.

When the SVR was first formed, back in 1965, some of the locos now resident hadn't even been built. The SVR has moved on, preservation has evolved and people's views have changed. It's unfortunate that the available space has not increased at the same pace. It should also be noted that the vast majority of our paying passengers want a steam loco at the front of their train. I make no apology for that.


So enthusiasts who pay, and happen to be diesel fans, can't be considered passengers and don't matter?

I don't see why the 'steam' fans resent Diesel enthusiasts so much. Fair to say that, bar the shunters, 37906 (sort of) and the 20's, none of the diesel classes represented on the SVR operate on the national network anymore and are therefore heritage in their own right and have as much right to utilise the SVR as the steam.


Last edited by ManorFan on Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mrmover



Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Manorfan you have taken a selective view of my post. I actually wrote:

...the vast majority of our paying customers...

That doesn't mean that those that who have other interests should not have their interests considered, and I am a supporter of the diesel gala and the diesel running on Saturdays. From the commercial point of view, and siding space is a commercial consideration, I am concerned that there are more diesels on the Valley than we can make use of.[/i]
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ManorFan



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 333
Location: Bromsgrove

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrmover wrote:
Sorry, Manorfan you have taken a selective view of my post. I actually wrote:

...the vast majority of our paying customers...

That doesn't mean that those that who have other interests should not have their interests considered, and I am a supporter of the diesel gala and the diesel running on Saturdays. From the commercial point of view, and siding space is a commercial consideration, I am concerned that there are more diesels on the Valley than we can make use of.[/i]


In that case, apologies - and I have to conceed that you are right about the number of diesels on the railway in compairison to how often they are utilised.

Have to admit that I do wish that they did see a little more use, especially during years when, like this year, there is no diesel gala sceduled.
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PGTips



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManorFan wrote:
mrmover wrote:
Sorry, Manorfan you have taken a selective view of my post. I actually wrote:

...the vast majority of our paying customers...

That doesn't mean that those that who have other interests should not have their interests considered, and I am a supporter of the diesel gala and the diesel running on Saturdays. From the commercial point of view, and siding space is a commercial consideration, I am concerned that there are more diesels on the Valley than we can make use of.[/i]


In that case, apologies - and I have to conceed that you are right about the number of diesels on the railway in compairison to how often they are utilised.

Have to admit that I do wish that they did see a little more use, especially during years when, like this year, there is no diesel gala sceduled.





Their use could be a hell of alot more if a set of coaches be put together, as DUAL HEAT, DUAL BRAKE, which if most of you didn't know the SVR has, split across most of the existing sets. So it is possible to have more running days, even in the winter.
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PGTips



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boldford wrote:
PGTips wrote:
I love ALL the speculation but had't you crystal ball gazer's better wait to see WHAT the OWNERS WANT to do!!!!!!!!!! Shocked
Are you suggesting the owners of 20177 should decide its fate?

Before its arrival I would like to think the owners have had a clear instruction that it's here for a clearly specified length of time for parts removal only and then whatever is left is immediately weighed-in.

Whilst the possibility exists that there is to be a cull of scarce historic carriages then it is nothing less than logical to be ruthless with 20177.



Yes I am suggesting that, seeing as they OWN the locomotive. Be a little like another group saying "Oh we have 3 Manors, don't need that many!!!!!! Let's scrap 1".
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