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LMS Stanier 8F 2-8-0 48773
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J-Green



Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 807
Location: Herefordshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Metal Locking is another phrase for Metal Stitching, which I've heard of.

Next question - what is Metal Stitching?

Supplementary question - if metal stitching is so great why is it not used to such a great extent as welding?
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threelinkdave



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile As a retired electrical engineer, this is really a mechanicals field of expertise I'll tread carefull.

its all to do with metalurgy. Welding is easiest between mild steel plates as a fluxed rod is used to avoid oxcidation at the weld area. Whilst heat can cause some local distortion (usually controlled by making short runs in alternate areas) the chemical properties are not afected as the free carbon was burnt off in creating the steel. welding mild steel is relativly quick and cost efective. remember 'metal locking' was used with mild steel - its called riveting - slow and laborious

Alluminium can be welded but requires an inert gas to avoid oxidation and is a particular skill.

Welding cast iron is an entirely different prospect. Cast iron is a relativly brittle material with free carbon which when heated through welding can cause brittleness greater than the original metal and can cause a chemical change to the structure of the iron. For castings stiching will give a good repair without altering the metalurgy of the repaired item. Its not a simple process and takes longer than would repairing a similar shaped mild steel item with a welding procedure.

I am quite happy to be corrected by a mechanical engineer
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madderlake



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 296
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

threelinkdave wrote:
Smile

Welding cast iron is an entirely different prospect. Cast iron is a relativly brittle material with free carbon which when heated through welding can cause brittleness greater than the original metal and can cause a chemical change to the structure of the iron. For castings stiching will give a good repair without altering the metalurgy of the repaired item. Its not a simple process and takes longer than would repairing a similar shaped mild steel item with a welding procedure.

I am quite happy to be corrected by a mechanical engineer


Cast iron can be welded, but not easily. The main problem is that as the job cools down, as the weld solidifies, the hot areas shrink, inducing tensile stress, and as cast iron is not good in tension, it is liable to form new cracks round the weld.

One solution is a slow (24 hrs) 'soak' in a furnace up to red hot, weld while hot, and back in the furnace for a further 24 hrs to slowly cool. This stress-relieves the casting. As other parts of the loco are unlikely to enjoy 48 hours at red heat, you have to take the cylinder off, and put it back, and that is not a 5-minute job.

More modern engines have steel cylinder castings.
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LMS2968



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 395
Location: Wigan

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is the main part of the report on the incident as given in Black Eight No 106, the Society's magazine. The photo is a selective of one by John Stiles.

"Without doubt the major item to report is the almost 'near fatal' failure of the right hand (fireman) side cylinder whilst 48773 was hauling a Severn Valley Railway service train tender first between Hampton Loade and Eardington on Friday 10th September 1999.
Although 48773 was being worked entirely properly and lightly at the time, it appears that a core plug in the cylinder failed and on the next stroke of the piston this was forced through the cylinder cover which broke away, in explosive manner, taking the front part of the cylinder casting, complete with studs, with it. The piston and piston rod also suffered severe damage. Such was the explosive force that the detached parts were recovered up to three coach lengths away from the locomotive.
The locomotive, being a complete failure, was returned to Bridgnorth where the extent of the damage was assessed. A crack, extending from the front of the cylinder was discovered in the cylinder casting, with some evidence of a previous repair. Whether this was carried out in BR days or even earlier under WD ownership is not known, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the infamous wartime derailment in the Persian Desert caused by a camel had a bearing on this incident.
On that occasion 41.109 was propelling a wagon, part of which made violent contact with the right hand front of the locomotive, and indeed the outer wall of the cylinder casting has, since Society ownership of the locomotive, exhibited signs of damage with part of the ribbing broken off.
Whatever the root cause, whether it be previous damage, or the composition of the core plug which caused the failure, attention very quickly turned to remedial action to be taken. Attention turned to replacement cylinder castings, none of which were immediately available in the UK, but enquiries were started with Turkish Railways to see if any new castings remained in stores there. Understandably this aspect received considerable coverage in the Railway Press! Eventually this course of enquiry was not pursued.
As an interim measure specialist firms were asked to quote for 'stitch weld' repairs. After consideration of the quotes, and whether or not the work could be carried out on the locomotive without the need to remove the cylinder, a contract was awarded to have the cylinder repaired to allow the fitting of a liner so that the locomotive could resume service at the earliest opportunity.
Following the 'stitch-weld operation the SVR arranged to line and re-bore the repaired cylinder, and to fit a new piston rod and head. The original piston rod was bent in the incident, and proved to be more cost effective to create a new one rather than to attempt to straighten the damaged one. As it happened the decision was taken to replace worn piston parts on the other side at the same time.
The ‘engineering stitching’ repair, together with the new parts, will enable the locomotive to return to its full range of duties, but in the long term a new cylinder casting is the preferred option. 48773 has some eight years remaining on the 'boiler ticket' for SVR use and then it will need its next heavy general overhaul. At that point it is expected the locomotive will be fitted with a replacement cylinder, but current estimates put the pattern making and casting cost at up to £20,000.
It may, however, be the case that other SVR locomotives share cylinder dimensions with 48773. The 'Black Five', 45110, and the 'Stanier Mogul', 2968, are the most likely candidates and it may make sound economic sense for the SVR to have a spare cylinder available should this problem appear again.
Despite the Stanier 8F class being considered as the 'War Standard' heavy freight locomotive, it appears that locomotives do differ in dimensions according to not only where they were built, but according to the different lot numbers at the same works! It is most fortunate that in the early days of the Society our Vice President, John Bond, responded to an advert offering a set of drawings for an 8F. Thankfully the drawings were for the group of North British locomotives which included WD307, now known as 48773! These drawings have been of very great use to the SVR during the current cylinder problem, and arrangements are now being made for the railway to have a duplicate set to retain for their own records."




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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5849

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Railway Magazine... © Mortons Media Group Ltd.

Page 70 of the May 2011 edition carries a small news item saying that The Stanier 8F Locomotive Society Limited is looking to make a bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund for 48773's overhaul. She is currently in The Engine House

Patrick
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P Thornhill



Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 462

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearn_p wrote:
Railway Magazine... © Mortons Media Group Ltd.

Page 70 of the May 2011 edition carries a small news item saying that The Stanier 8F Locomotive Society Limited is looking to make a bid to the Heritage Lottery Fund for 48773's overhaul. She is currently in The Engine House

Patrick


And I hope they do - I miss the 8f.
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boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2740
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMS2968 wrote:
. . . . .Attention turned to replacement cylinder castings, none of which were immediately available in the UK, but enquiries were started with Turkish Railways to see if any new castings remained in stores there. Understandably this aspect received considerable coverage in the Railway Press! Eventually this course of enquiry was not pursued. . . . . . .
Perhaps of interest is some of those repatriating the "Churchills" from Turkey have also been investigating what, if any, patterns remain there.
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oliver



Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 901
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And I hope they do - I miss the 8f.

And me, it's the best loco on the SVR. The history of 48773 alone will hopefully be enough to get the grant.
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J-Green



Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 807
Location: Herefordshire

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HLF funding will not be forthcoming without a quality interpretative display. The history of the locomotive is immaterial unless the general public can and are educated about it.

Any suggestions as to how the 8F Society can interpret the story in a new, exciting way that will appeal to the HLF?
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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5849

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apropos nothing, charity 261751 THE STANIER 8F LOCOMOTIVE SOCIETY LIMITED submitted its annual statement to the Charity Commission on June 14th.
Y/e 31 Oct 2013
Income £11,722
Expenditure £6,198

Patrick
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jackson_p



Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 725

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8F No. 48773 is planned to be moved from the Highley Visitor Centre to Kidderminster on 20 June for our upcoming Last Days of Steam event on 04 August.

Refer to https://forum.svr-online.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4143
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GWR5764PT



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 802
Location: Kidderminster Station

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sp where is it going after the celebrations in August?
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jackson_p



Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 725

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Extract from the SVR website [as viewed 29 June 2018].
Step Back to the 1940s
http://www.svr.co.uk/SEItem.aspx?a=49

Kidderminster
• See the 'Royal Engineers Memorial Locomotive' on display - 8F No 48773, appearing in War Department livery as No. 307.

This forum post is a snapshot extract from the main SVR web site and is not necessarily updated to reflect change. Always refer back to and check the main web site to confirm details are still correct.
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Derby4



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 1832

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image of the loco in WD guise in the latest issue of "Steam Railway".
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